Subject: Roleplaying Tips Weekly Supplemental #17: Dealing With Stealthy PCs ***You have received this document because my autoresponder system processed a request with your email in the Reply To field. This is a plain text document with no attachments. If you have received this document in error, report abuse to johnn@roleplayingtips.com. Please note that I cannot help in the cases of spoofed, relayed, ghosted, or forged emails.*** Thank you for requesting: Roleplaying Tips Weekly Supplemental #17 "Tips For Dealing With Stealthy PCs" This file was created because of the wonderful response to a GM's plea in issue #230 for help dealing with stealthy PC types who split from parties to do their thing. This results in them either getting into mortal jeopardy without the other PCs nearby to help, or boring the uninvolved players. Thanks to everyone who emailed me their tips, stories, and advice. New tips for this doc are always welcome. Cheers, Johnn Four johnn@roleplayingtips.com http://www.roleplayingtips.com @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ 0. The Original Help Request ============================ ASK THE DM: Brawn and Stealth -- Oil and Water? A reader's comment on team cooperation reminded me of a constant obstacle to team play in my games: stealth. In my first D&D group, we had two characters (a rogue and a monk) who were excellent at stealth, while everyone else wasn't. Rogue & Monk would always go spying or looting by themselves, refusing to take the rest of us because we "would just screw up their chances". The worst recon mission separated them from us for two sessions; they got to do all the fun stuff while we were stuck beating up random monsters and waiting for them to return. After that, I joined a Hackmaster group. Although stealth hasn't split up our party, it's still dangerous. Our 5th- level rogue died at the hands of the enemy because he went scouting without backup. If someone was watching his back, he wouldn't be maggot food. I need suggestions on how unstealthy characters can accompany, escort, or watch stealthy characters on their runs, keeping us non-stealthy types involved with the game and giving the sneaky types the advantage of backup if (when) things go bad. 1. From: Redwing ================ In RPGs, stealth is a talent awarded to a class at the cost of another ability. In D&D, the rogue gains stealth but loses fighter type combat skills. The key is that granting stealth must be moderated for game balance. Otherwise, why would anyone take the rogue class if all the other classes had stealth. Of course there are ways to grant stealth to adventurers who are not inherently stealthy. As a player, you can use magic, technology, or even innovative ideas (like inserting padding between armor plates and suffering a movement penalty or purchasing specially designed clothing) to gain stealth. Here is where it is important for the party members to assist each other. Most campaigns I see, the players place all their enhancements on a single character and that party member is solely responsible for success. I suspect that is what is happening based on what you described about how when rogue goes solo and encounters problems, they are trapped far from the party. You can try to have the party work together with stealth, but there are usually costs associated, like the fighter and cleric stripping off their armor or the rogue surrendering those items that boosts his/her own stealth skills. As a game master, many more options become available. Magic or technology that allows the members to remain in constant communication or even allow instantaneous movement to the combat site would be of great aid to the solo scout in trouble. Additionally, devices or items that provide a fixed stealth bonus can be introduced. The rogue character will already be more skilled than the item, so they will pass it to another party member. Or, you may just provide environments where stealth can be more easily achieved, like in a noisy location that has numerous shadows available. 2. From: Noah ============= I can think of three distinct ways about this. If the group can take things slowly (and most characters have Move Silently or a similar skill of at least one point because untrained rolls suck) then the whole party should move at 1/4 or 1/8 or whatever speed is lowest so they can maximize the stealth of the whole group. The rogue would lead by about 30' or more depending on circumstances, and any opponent that may hear the group may underestimate it's forces by only hearing those who aren't so stealthy. The second option is to give every non-stealth character some item, magic or otherwise, that will improve their stealthiness. This way the entire group can follow at a reasonable distance. A variation would be to give the most effective backup person, a fighter or magic user depending on the party, all of the stealth items. Another variation would depend on non-stealth members of the party having varying levels of stealth items so that each member follows at a certain distance behind the rogue depending on their modified ability. The third option would be a complete turn around. Why send the rogue ahead to be killed alone? Why not keep the whole group together but trick any potential enemies into believing it's just a bunch of brutes. To do this just get the stealth characters rings of invisibility (or even better, a ring of greater invisibility, just 52,000 gp) and allow him to do his thing around the party while the party as a whole moves at a reasonable/cautious pace. This has a nice side effect, especially if the ability is Greater Invisibility, of allowing any invisible character with sneak attack to deal extra damage again and again. This is enhanced if the character also has the Combat Reflexes feat. This is somewhat of a reversal since it focuses more on the stealth characters becoming killers along with the fighter characters, but it allows the whole party to be able to back up the rogues and monks when they are searching. Although it does detract from all out scouting. 3. From: Joachim de Ravenbel ============================ I usually GM stealth as a group skill, the proficient characters supplying their knowledge to the other. You can see it that way : as long as a non-stealthy character is in range (say 10 feet), he can benefit from the proficient character (50% to 100% skill ranks or whatever), duplicating the other movements and stances. Once he is out of range, he doesn't benefit anymore from it, i.e. he doesn't learn from imitating in a tense situation (which should be the case in stealth). 4. From: Tyler ============== In Issue 230 someone asked how to incorporate stealthy characters into the party without separating them. The answer is to use modern recce techniques. Namely, have the brawn of the party trailing a safe distance from the stealth characters. That way, if there is trouble, the brawn can move up to support the stealth, while the stealth characters made sure there are no ambushes or enemies lurking (the whole point of recce) So, you could have your Rogue sneaking through the woods, with the Paladin, Barbarian and Cleric stumbling along a distance behind. The Rogue discovers a group of Trolls laughing and talking around a campfire. He doubles back, brings the rest of the party and they wait in hiding in the trees near the campfire. The rogue says, give me 3 minutes, sneaks around to the other end of the campfire. The party charges in at the end of the 3 minutes and attacks the trolls (getting the jump on them and catching them flat-footed). Once combat is joined, the Rogue is free to dart in for back stabs. Just because you are doing recce doesn't mean you have to be miles away and operating as separate parties. 5. From: KX =========== "Mission Control, we have a problem here" Yeah, Jeff, tell me all about it. You are the best trained Shadow here, skilled with all the aspects being a good spy. You can move as silent as a wraith in the night, cloak yourself with the very darkness it is, and if worse come to the worst, you are a crackshot with the magnum. "No, I'm confident about my abilities to infiltrate this maximum security, highly guarded, and top-secret complex..." I never have doubts about you Jeff. "But this muscleman WHOM you have sent, with WHOM I am stuck, and WHOSE purpose is to help me in this mission, breathes so loud that even a Storm Trooper can shoot him in the dark!" Now we have a problem. And here are some suggestions. Some work better for some genres. Fantasy games tend to pose more problems, but with some creativity (and some magical artifacts that replicate high-tech equipment), it can be done. Some are for GMs, while some are techniques for the PCs to consider. 1) Have Others Create A Diversion ---------------------------------- The oldest trick in the book. Sun Tzu summarised it as, "If you want to attack from the East, pretend as if you are attacking from the West". JRR Tolkien used it too - Aragorn and Co. basically ran halfway round Middle-Earth to draw Sauron's gaze away from Frodo. Hence, have the non-stealth members make themselves useful at doing what they are best at - wielding big swords, unloading tonnes of rounds, or setting off heat-guiding missiles, while the nimbler stealth expert(s) sneak in. 2) Give The Non-Stealth Member The Expertise -------------------------------------------- Sure, the rogue can sneak undetected into the Alchemist's Guild, but how would he know which potion to take? You can send the world's most renowned Spy into secret lab but would him know how to bypass the security system for the computer which hold the vital information? Sometimes bringing the other cumbersome and careless members is a necessary evil - make it so at least those bumbling idiots have a purpose to serve. 3) Make Stealth A Non-Issue For Non-Stealth Members --------------------------------------------------- Sneaking is not the only way to infiltrate a compound. Disguises and stealth generators (aka invisibility cloaks) are some other ideas. But then what do we need the rogue or espionage agent for? Well, they are not only good at sneaking in. They are also needed to pick locks, bypass security doors, disable traps, and so on. The others just need to stay quiet and lend whatever aid that may be needed. For disguised PCs, they cannot walk freely about either. The GM can easily think of another purpose for the disguised PCs as the rogue goes merrily wreaking havoc within the innards of the bad guy's base. 4) Use Time-Limited Invisibility -------------------------------- For the other non-stealth members, grant them the use of some limited invisibility that will wear off after some time. So now the party has two challenges - sneak past the guards undetected and get there within a limited period of time. If invisibility sounds extreme, it is not actually that powerful. Invisible PCs still make noises and emit scent. Invisibility might also fail in areas of powerful magic or in the presence of powerful magic-users. 5) Use The Non-Stealth Members For Remote Aid --------------------------------------------- The rogue or spy is stuck within the enemy's compound and the other PCs are responsible for keeping him alive. Maybe they have hacked into the computer and have a map of all the levels, including where the guards are, and can warn the spy off approaching dangers. Or they may be based within the complex's command centre, with access to all the security measures, though they cannot switch everything off for that will alert the guards. Other PCs may need to venture outside the complex to sabotage some security systems or to waylay an incoming nemesis who knows that the spy is within the complex. Frequent inter-cutting between the stealth action and the other PCs' actions, especially when you leave a cliffhanger, can be very suspenseful and memorable. The problem would be that of communication. In modern games, that wouldn't be a problem, with the advent of mobile phones, communicators, and such. In fantasy games, the DM may have to dream up psionic communication devices or the players may need to resort to using smoke signals, whistles, etc. 6) Make Stealth Sequences Short But Challenging ----------------------------------------------- Unless you are designing for an all thief-party, there's no need to design a stealth sequence that spans an entire session. Explore other methods of infiltration (the PCs will generally come up with their own) besides stealth, for that excludes everyone and is a risky venture. Another idea is to make stealth sequences short and straight to the point. Maybe a gatehouse is blocking the way. Fine, the resident thief just climbs up a tree, leaps over to the guard tower, pulls up the gate long enough so that the rest of the party can sneak through, then drops quietly back down. The sequence is over in less than 15 minutes, the thief got his 15 minutes of fame and glory, and the rest of the party are excluded only for a short period of time. 7) Stealth Is No Stranger ------------------------- For many professions, being stealthy is no strange thing. Modern soldiers are schooled in field craft and tactical usage of weaponry at night. Policemen and investigators likewise have need of such training. Along a fantasy vein, wizards and spellcasters have access to spells that could render them incognito. If you are planning long, extended stealth sequences for your campaign, consider making the Stealth skill a core skill, or award some ad hoc bonus based on the character's background. 8) Scouting Tactics ------------------- The PCs could pre-arrange a couple of things before sending the scout ahead to find out more about the area ahead. Pre- arranged hand signals can eliminate the need for talking. For example, a gesture could tell the other PCs to take cover or to come forward. Another one could be meant to say that the coast is clear. This way, the PCs can linger back while the scout ascertains the area is safe (this is practised for modern combat). For more dangerous missions, have the scout leave trails or markings to indicate what is the best direction to go and what dangers to look out for. Hence, the scout could set out an hour earlier and the others can follow the scout's directions to find the safe routes. Sure, it sounds kind of stupid if the scout meets some Big Bad Hairy Monster somewhere and is killed with the rest of the PCs are being led to their doom. But if the PCs are any cleverer, they should have stayed home and remained farmers, clerks, and what-have-you. At any rate, if the scout is imprisoned, he should have time enough to leave a distress signal so at least the PCs are but an hour behind him (assuming that the scout goes at the same rate as the PC). With real-time communication, the gap between the scout and the PCs can be even smaller. 9) Consider Other Alternatives To Stealth ----------------------------------------- Leave stealth to the master of shadows. In some situations, there are other ways of infiltrating an area. Disguises have been mentioned and are one great tool, especially if you get your hands on some uniforms or identification. There are potions of invisibility, alternative routes, spells, and magic. The druid could shapeshift himself into an insignificant animal (say, a mouse, but then beware of the cat!), the fighter can disguise himself as just a 'passing mercenary', and so on. 10) "Conquer" In Phases ----------------------- Do not send your scout on an overwrought and overlong scouting mission. Instead, think of checkpoints which you want to be scouted and the scout communicated to you that the area is clear (see point 8), the party will move forward and hide themselves, while the scout (or another one) once more set out to next checkpoint. The benefit is that if the scout is discovered or face a problem, the PCs are not too far behind. The problem could be that the entire party could be trapped but you risk losing your scout. Hobson's choice, they put it. Summary ------- For GMs, one of the greatest sins is to leave out some players from the game. Hence, when the party thief goes snooping, give the others non-stealth based players something else to do, like a diversion, or another mission of equal importance. For players, spend some discussing tactics and "what-if" scenarios with the scout before you send him out. Scouts need to know when to fall back and when to call for back-up (and how to call for back-up). Just my two copper worth. 6. Anna Ovchinnikova ==================== Hello Johnn, I'm writing about that "Brawn & Stealth" issue: * A spellcaster may use some of his divination spells to spy after the "stealthy ones" and then come to their aid using some form of teleportation if the situation grows dire. (In my mind, a cleric's 2nd level spell, "Status," works just well for divination.) * Some unstealthy spellcasters can use Invisibility on himself :^) * Other characters can use Invisibility potions * While a rogue uses her stealth to spy into some keep, any other character can use Disguise to do the same (disguise as a vendor or chambermaid or something) * You can use some minimising spell (like Reduce Person) to bring the non-stealthy ones along in your pocket or backpack (size doesn't really matter for spellcasters, does it?) 7. From: Ian Stanley-Maddocks ============================= Hey Johnn, Just read the latest issue and enjoyed it thoroughly as usual. I've got an idea for Jeff who wrote "Brawn and Stealth -- Oil and Water?" The simplest solution I can think of for Jeff to solve his dilemma is to use the brawn for distraction, while the stealth sneaks in the back door. Even if the brawn doesn't get to pick a fight with the bad guys, they can still roleplay a bunch of drunks outside the target premises. They could spice things up by staging a fight between two party members. The party members will appear to be beating each other up, but will actually be trying to pound each other without causing damage. How long can the party draw out a drunk brawl before it begins to look suspicious to the bad guys? How will the bad guys respond to the distraction? Will the sneaks be able to do their job? The DM could also have some fun and introduce some unknowns to the equation - more drunks, the city watch, thieves trying to steal from the 'drunk' party, an all out brawl with ten different and constantly changing sides. Both the roleplaying and combat possibilities are endless. The second method of involving the party is to give them a 'wait them move' action. After a set time period (5 minutes, 20 rounds etc), if the stealth crew hasn't returned, the brawn crew breaks down the front door in a 'rescue mission'. If the party plays it right, the stealth crew can set up a trap so when the brawn crew enters, the stealth crew can shoot or stab the bad guys in the back, creating confusion and setting up free kills. Alternatively, the brawn crew hacks their way in one direction while the stealth crew sneaks through the distraction to the true objective. If the party is competitive, make it a race between the two crews to see who can nail the objective first. It's hardly team building and difficult for the DM to monitor, but at least everyone is involved and doing something. 8. From: Chris Smith http://www.shabahscreations.com ================================== Hi Johnn, If the party in question had access to magic or magical items, the party could put to use some forms of magical stealth where it's available. Spells like Invisibility, Cone of Silence, and the like could prove useful. If any items are available, they can be used too (Cloak of Darkness, Boots of Stealth, etc.). If these items or spells aren't available, perhaps the DM could knock up an adventure where these items can be "acquired" by some means. If the party is faced with a mission where they need to use stealth or a specialised skill, either give the other players other possible options/solutions to complete the mission so they're not left out, or give the disadvantaged players some way to be involved.) Alternatively, the thief can be given a potion of strength or a ring of "super endurance". If possible, how about alternate routes? If the stealth guy enters the castle via a side entrance that's heavily guarded, a good climber can scale the unguarded wall or a strong swimmer can swim in via the moat and they can meet somewhere in the middle. If the thief gets into trouble, the muscley guy is nearby! (In this situation, parts of the castle / stronghold are guarded and others aren't.) Also, if the DM knows the thief is walking into a situation where he's out of his league physically, just tone the encounter down a bit at the time or give the thief a couple more means of escape so it's difficult but not impossible to survive.... On the subject of planning, while the DM takes into account the various skills of the players, he should also structure his adventures so it keeps all the players busy and quite "unbored". For instance, if, as Jeff says, there are going to be 2 sessions worth of sneaking and spying by the thieves, have some stuff the muscle in the group can do in the meantime. (Interrogating the henchmen; invading a smaller, less-guarded outpost; running distraction for the thieves so they can enter the castle unnoticed; throwing the thief to the other side of the moat that he can't swim cause he's agoraphobic....) In one of our sessions, the group decided to take on a stronghold by force where their fellow players were captured. To even the odds, though, they sent in the scout of the group to set up bombs around the place for distraction / destructive purposes. (This guy had both the stealth and demolition skills to do so.) Then, when the bombs went off, he got out of the way of the main destruction and let the heavy hitters of the party do their job while he snuck around to free their comrades. I find if players play a part that advances the group in some way where they get to show-off their skill, they're mostly happy. In fact, Jeff, come to think of it, I think I can sum up your problem in three words: Planning, Planning, Planning. If the DM plans ahead for the unforeseeable and the not-so- unforeseeable, you won't have half the troubles you're having now. (However, if the players insist on doing the unforeseen, unthinkable and unplanned, well, that's a tip for anther time I guess....) 9. From: Dwayne Trawick ======================= Jeff, We've been having this problem in our D&D campaign too! The GM keeps giving us these stealth missions and we just suck at them! I really think it's a matter of how the GM runs things, but here are a few ideas: 1) Have the fighters put some points into the stealth skill, if there is one. If not, look it up and see if there are any alternative stealth rules you might be able to coax your GM into. 2) For a stealth mission, when it really counts: get rid of the armor. Generally, either it gives you a skill modifier for such skills, or it lowers your encumbrance, harming your skill also, so just don't bring it when stealth really counts. A side idea: what if stealth really counts but the arch- lich-demi-demon bad guy is at the end of the hall? See if you can smuggle the characters' goods into the castle. I'm thinking the smooth talker has a wheelbarrow with a bunch of sacks of grain or flower or something. He gets them through the gates, but instead of going to the pantry, he makes a rendezvous with the other players at the end of the castle, rips open the sacks and, DAH DA-DA DAAH!, the armor and weapons are delivered. 3) Take it a piece at a time. Have the stealthy guys clear out a room, a hallway, or something, isolating the crunchy areas so that a fight can go on here or there without alerting the whole castle, and then bring in the fighters. Well, that's all I can think of right now. Hope it works out!! 10. From: Joshua Yaeger ======================= Here are some ideas for using stealth PCs in conjunction with everyone else. When the stealth PC is scouting have everyone else follow 30-60 ft. behind him. The group can even work out hand signals so the stealth PC can tell the others what is going on around the corner without having to walk back to the PCs. Even if the PC follows a little too close and a enemy hears them, the enemy may not see the stealth and walk right by him. This puts the stealth PC in the right place to flank and sneak attack the enemy while the beefy, non-stealth PCs take the damage. If this goes badly for the stealth PC, the rest of the party will be able to hear him yell for help and help him. Another way is to use the stealth PC as an ace in the hole. Instead of being in front, he follows behind the group a little ways. When the group gets in trouble, the stealth PC can sneak up unseen and blind-side any enemy that the group is having trouble with. Example: The black knight raises his sword above his head to deal the final blow to the frail spellcaster that has just been knocked to the ground, when out of a shadowy corner flies a knife striking the knight in the neck. There's a small gurgling sound and the knight falls to the ground, blood flowing from his mouth that's wide open in surprise. Good stealth PCs will learn that non-stealth PCs make very good distractions that allow stealth PCs to do just as much or more than they could do by themselves. This is one other way to support a scouting PC. If you have a high level spell caster, they can scry on the PC so that he knows exactly where he is and can get to where he is if need be. Well, that all I can think of I hope they are of some help. 11. From: Tyler Elkink ====================== Suggestion 1: The fighter's plate mail clanks, right? Well, the rogue, as master of stealth, ought to be able to figure out a way to pad it. Let the rogue design or build some armour modifications for the noisy people in the group. The fighter won't be stealthy, but he won't be causing hearing checks every step, and he'll be able to follow the thief much more closely and provide support. Suggestion 2: Hand movements don't make noise. If the rogue is worried about noise the party could develop signals so the rogue can guide them safely. This could also add a unique roleplaying element; when the characters need to be quiet, the party needs to be quiet and use real hand gestures, combined with a battle map. Any speaking would allow a monster hearing check. Suggestion 3: As I once played a mage with dreams of being an artificer, I'm very aware of the low cost of crafting artifacts with permanent low-level spells. If there is a mage in the party (or if not, a magic shop), they could create a "wireless set" with Whispering Wind. The cantrip "Message", while limited in range, represents an even lower XP cost. Systems besides D&D, such as GURPS, have analogous spells, and frequently allow for specialized creations. 12. From: Joseph Rapoport ========================= Jeff, We suffered through the same issues with our party, and it did not get any better when we attained high levels. The thief would still sneak off and more times than not he would either return with a mass of creatures in hot pursuit or we would find his carcass somewhere. While we were playing an AD&D 2nd edition campaign, I do not think that these solutions are any less valid. Whenever our thief took off on a scouting mission, my Kensai would follow him to keep him out of trouble. Our mage would cast silence on the Kensai so that he could move quietly some distance behind the thief; sometimes our cleric would imbue a rock with the silence spell so that the Kensai could throw it in case of a necessary hasty retreat. Invisibility coupled with silence is especially good, and better if you have a Ring of Invisibility that incorporates inaudibility. Invisibility with a fly spell works fine too. Try using an illusion spell to have you appear as a cavern wall while you move around shadowing the thief. Of course, having someone in the party take a few levels of rogue or monk works as well. Now, if you do not need to follow the thief, but just want to keep an eye on him then there are a host of spells that work well: * Clairvoyance * Clairaudience * Scry @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Have more fun at every game! johnn@roleplayingtips.com End of Supplemental #17 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@